2017 Betting System Oscars: Best Football System

Betting System Oscars 2017: Best Football System

Welcome back to the 2017 awards ceremony!

Today, I’m handing out the Betting System Oscar for “Best Football Service”.

The first Oscars saw “Total Football Trading” scoop this award in 2012. “Betgreen” won in 2013 and then “Goal Profits” landed the most votes in 2014. The following year, 2015, was a win for “Pre-Match Trading” before “Goal Profits” regained the spoils in 2016.

When announcing the winner last year, Lucy revealed that “Goal Profits won more than three times as many votes as anything else” even though there was a lot more competition from new products.

That was an impressive feat and led to Goal Profits surging to the top of the Oscar-winning table with more wins than any other system or service.

So… what happened this year?

Did the football system you voted for end up as the winner?

I’m excited to announce that the winner is…

 

Goal Profits!

 

I don’t know what happened to the other football betting/trading competitors, but Goal Profits was way ahead within days of opening the voting and never looked like being caught.

In fact, no other football service won more than two votes! Really quite amazing.

Naturally, I saw this phenomenal voting taking place and immediately set about investigating further!

The first thing I did was get access to Goal Profits itself so that I could update the various trials and reports at Lay Back (including plenty of screenshots).

Secondly, I asked Steve Brown for the customary Oscar acceptance speech!

Steve said, “Thank you to everyone who voted for Goal Profits! It’s our third time winning this award and it’s a huge motivation for us to do even better. We want to keep winning, so we push ourselves to constantly improve our amazing football trading community for all members, old and new.

We’ve welcomed a growing number of new members over the past year whose bookie accounts have been gubbed through matched betting. Thankfully, most are joining before they lose all of their income so that they have some time to learn trading without any immediate pressure.

He continued, “We are also celebrating more members than ever who are able to trade full-time. Of course, most don’t suddenly give up work and expect to pay their bills from trading! Just this week I received an email from a member who has steadily learned football trading over the past 16 months and expects Goal Profits to provide more than half his total income in the near future. That’s a great way to steadily build.

The improvements to the Goal Profits Members Area have continued and I’d like to thank you, Amy, for taking the time to update the site here with many of our latest additions. We’ve moved on a long way from even the last trial, so it was good to get it up to date. We still have plenty more ideas to implement too, so there’s a lot more to come yet.

If any Lay Back & Get Rich readers have not joined us yet, we would love to welcome you on board and help you achieve all of your trading goals.

Thank you Steve and congratulations again! The margin of victory really was impressive and fully deserved from what I have seen inside the members area and chat room.

So… if you have not checked out Goal Profits yet, try it for a week for £1.

You will get immediate access to everything you need to start trading, but you’re not tied in to anything long-term. Remain a member if you want to, or don’t – though I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t, I have really enjoyed my peak behind the scenes!

Click here to start your £1 trial

The next Betting System Oscar to be awarded will be for “Best (Other Sport) System” so stay tuned!

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  1. yeah that football hedging/daisho is a fraud, stepping in front of a cement truck to pick up pennies.

    Everyones a genius using wayback machine to trade lol…

    Gerry if you were a legit trader and actually used the ‘winning’ system you would realise by promoting it as a winning system you are losing edge as there is only so many a games a week with correct score liquidity. So you are promoting the scam to make money or you are an idiot and dont know how competing for liquidity works.

    1. I said as far as I’m concerned the discussion on Daisho was over….can’t you read?

      You sound like another one who hasn’t got the system too… but full of opinions..so who is the idiot?….

      And just to add, my betting bank keeps doubling every 2 to 3 months…..I’m happy, no need to read crap on here…

      1. Guys, stop arguing. Gerry has been asked to ahow the REAL proof i.e. aome profit and loss statements and he is neither responding to that question let alone willing to publish the results.
        I see all kinds of vendors show some Betfair results as promotional materials, but once you ask for a specific period of proof, the door will be locked.
        Same with Gerry. Take your own conclusions.

  2. Hi Bob/ Steve,

    Bob, you are entitled to your opinion, it’s obvious you don’t have the Daisho system by your comments.
    Also BetMan who posted came to the same conclusion, so without wishing to to be rude, you don’t know how it works
    or anything about it. In other words mate, you are talking a load of crap, but good luck anyways.

    Steve, i simply came on here to give my personal opinion on Daisho having purchased it and used it over several
    months. I’m very happy with the results. There’s no point in posting results/profit etc as you would get the same
    idiots that don’t even have the system or know anything about saying they are fake…

    As far as I’m concerned the the discussion on Daisho is over, like one guy suggested on here, concentrate on making money, I don’t need to read crap, good luck to you.

    I could

    1. There’s no point keeping saying that it works when it doesn’t. There’s no point blaming users for not practicing enough or not using the system properly . There’s dozens of systems that work ok until they don’t and that’s when you get wiped out. That’s the bottom line.

    1. Cheers Andy, sorry if I came across a bit rude, I love trading and gambling, probably to much for my own good.
      When I’m not in the UK I actually live in China in a city called Tianjin. I just wanted to give my opinion on this system/methods if anyone was interested, that’s all.

      The only connection I have with Tim Lowe he owes the airline the price of an expensive box of chocolates he pinched from first class…you can tell him if you ever communicate with him…all the best….

  3. With Bob on this and believe me I know my trading and I have years of experience.
    Gerry, I remember Tony trading a Dutch game which went goals mad, afterwards didn’t post a video and then claimed he shouldn’t of done the trade because he was ill.
    Many of the recovery videos use a time machine software to show recovery, but this is an advantage as he will already know the score.
    You will note that some of recoveries do not cover all scorelines.
    Question to you Gerry. Why do you care so much about defending the product? Surely if you are a pro you wouldn’t even entertain negative vibes and just getting on making money. Perhaps you are an affiliate !

    1. Andy…..you make me laugh…an affiliate? I’m a qualified commercial airline pilot with 50% shares in the company….
      contracted to Air China…. trading and gambling is my hobby… I’ve heard all that crap before mate… have a nice day…. 🙂

  4. Nice to hear from a guy who actually knows what he’s talking about… you’ll get there, yes it does take a lot of time.
    But when you do get it right, the rewards are good, well done and good luck Betman…

  5. Bob by the way you are talking it would appear you don’t have this Daisho system. It’s been created to cover every possible outcome, with trial and error over many months. To know what you are talking about you have to have it, study it, learn it, then understand how it works.

    It’s no good coming on here saying this amount of goals or those odds are no good and it will wipe your betting bank out. The ones who found themselves in that situation thought they could learn it in no time, no way!….

    It costs a lot of money, many have put the effort it and learned how to use it correctly, but unfortunately there will always be the ones knocking it why? because they haven’t got it or they are not prepared to learn…..simple mate.

    I’ve given my opinion, it works for me, and if I can do it so can others if they get off their ar….es and they are prepared to work at it and learn…..enough said, good luck what ever you do.

    1. I think I agree with this.

      I do in fact have the system and have had it for a long while now.

      Do I use it? Actually, no.

      For the simple reason that it takes A LOT of practice and I can tell that I haven’t done that enough. I have tried to do it at small stakes and I HAVE lost money (only small pocket money though) in some trades while others worked out fine. When analyzing the trades afterwards I could see why it was that I lost money and that mistakes were made.

      The comment by Bob about the 4+ goals by one team does indicate that he does not have the system as that specific situation actually is one of the easiest ones to cover – alternatively you, Bob, have not followed the rules of the system very well.

      So, do I know for sure that it works every time and you can never lose money if you know how to react during the trade? Honestly, no.

      Can I say that it does not work? Again, no. Tony shows in a lot of videos how to respond to freak situations and that every position is recoverable as long as you stick to the rules and follow the match and odds development. As some (not all) of those videos are based on matches where the final score line is known before the trade, you could argue that it doesn’t prove that it works in all live situations (it’s done “after the fact” to show how you could have handled a specific match which appeared impossible to recover based on a software program that allows you to test trade your systems on historic games). Even in those videos, however, he does follow the general rules of the system and covers just as much as he does in the “live” vidoes shown, so you can’t just disregard those because of “hindsight”.

      Bottom line: I think this system actually works, if you spend the time to learn it. Tony himself does a lot to tell people to only paper trade until they are “fluent” in the system and is being very honest in that it requires a lot of training. It’s a bit like chess really – it’s relatively easy to learn but very tricky to become good at.

  6. Having been one of the first to voice criticism of the Goal Profits award year after year. And now having seen all the ensuing comments. And having done in more money than I dare count up on GP, TradeShark, Inplay Trading, Betrader Evolution et al. I have belatedly come to the conclusion that the only “winners,” of this betting mugs game are the vendors of these products and all of the little fish feeding off of them promoting their products. We are all mugs looking for a way to “laybackandgetrich,” lol! If I had put as much effort, time and money, into the likes of affiliate marketing and blogging etc, I would not be writing this having just finished blowing yet another bank thinking that yet again I had finally made it. I have been gambling for 50 years and trust me it don’t matter wether they disguise their products as trading or anything else. The bottom line is it is all gambling and subject to the immutable laws of chance which are loaded against us mugs. But of which the vendors just like the bookies are able to use those laws to profit from our stupid blind faith that we can win long term. All reading this do yourself a favour. Get out of gambling and get a life or you will one day pass away still trying to be a “full time trader,” and skint!!,

  7. Currently in loss of 4 grand using Daisho. Why are there no members coming out the woodwork to say it works for them?

    1. Hi Stan, sorry to hear about your loss, having said that, why did you let it get to such a high figure? £4 grand…my god, didn’t it cross your mind after say £500 quid loss you was not following the methods correctly.

      Stan put simply…it does work, I know it does because I’m making good money. but you have to study for months just to be confident in using just one of the methods and you know there are a few. As for the members who are not coming on here out of the woodwork as you put it, they’re to busy studying, learning and making money.

      For the average guy on an average wage, this product is a hell of a lot to lay out at nearly 3 grand, they’re not going to want spending time on here after laying that money out and I don’t blame them. This is a life changing system if you are prepared to put the time and effort in to learn it correctly. They want to change their lives, and the ones that are doing it are the ones who have studied and learn t do it correctly…..and there are quite a lot of them.

      There are guys on here want to know everything for nothing and are not prepared to do their own thing, and learn for themselves. I can afford to come on here and talk about it, it’s only a hobby for me, I’m fortunate to have another income coming in.

      I watched Tony the guy who created these methods do hundreds of live football trades, he never lost money once. If you study, have the patience and prepared to put the time in, the worst that can happen is, you either win or break even. I’ve only learned a couple of the methods after several months, but I have yet to lose any money, just broke even a few times, I’m happy with that.

      Stan Tony is a very helpful guy, take a step back have a talk with him. It works mate, if you have learned to do it correctly, good luck…

      1. Sorry the system doesn’t work. once the goals start flying in there is no way you can avoid a sizeable loss cos it’s mathematically impossible to balance your outlay on the different odds.

        Believe me I’d love to be wrong but it just doesn’t work in the long run.

        1. Bob, what you mean is , it doesn’t work for you, because by hell it does for me… 🙂

          You see that’s were you are wrong. when the goals start flying in and you’ve learned what to do without having to think about it, you have covered every possible situation…

          You can’t say something doesn’t work just because you can’t make it work, because others are making it work….

          1. And just to add Bob, how do you explain then after watching Tony place hundreds of trades over 18 months and never lost money. And I watched every trade being placed live till he won?

          2. i think it would end all argument if you were to post your profit. Since you are “making good money,” and you “don’t need the money,” and unlike all the other Daisho “traders ,” do obviously have the time to post on here. If you were to post a small proof sample that would shut all the critics up. Especially these ones. https://www.thedaishosystemscam.co.uk/test-page.

          3. How many if those hundreds of matches went to or threatened to go to 4 goals to one or more teams?

          4. No that isn’t what I mean. I mean what I said ie that it doesn’t work full stop.

            I suppose we’ve got to admire your tenacity for keeping on coming back with your comments. But so can I . Let’s see who blinks first.

  8. Hi Andrew, I understand how you feel after purchasing Football Hedging, but, and it’s a big but, the recovery methods are not all the same.

    Those complaining and the all hell broke loose on that forum you mentioned, well I can tell you, most of them did not take the time to learn all the methods correctly. This takes months and months of studying and lots of patience.

    Many thought they could quickly read through the manual, watch a few videos and they’d be in the money.
    Don’t work like that, now they’re complaining after been repeatedly told to study, study, lean, learn, no, they decided to do it their way.

    I’ve had this system quite a few months now and yet to complete the learning of all the methods..
    Good luck anyways.

  9. I am qualified to knock it as a purchaser of Football Hedging, I totally understand all the methods. If it works for you, great and good luck.
    Delayed entry and missing score lines out on the premise that its unlikely to happen is not good management.

    1. Thanks – Jimmy.

      PS GP may be great for the things you say. But does applying their approach lead to consistent profits, month after month. Its all very well learning about stuff, over a longish period, but if it doesn’t bring in the moolah…

  10. Hi Andrew, I like your wording ” outliers ” it’s nice to be one of them. Detached from the main body etc, but there are
    quite few of us, averaging to double our betting bank every couple of months or so.

    If this is fools paradise….long may it continue…..if you haven’t tried or got it, try not to knock it, because do you know what?……it bloody works mate…… 🙂

  11. Goal Profits I rate as a highly useful resource for Statistics and learning about many aspects of Football trading and betting, Steve has expanded the business over the last few years and deserves credit for producing content which has great integrity.

    Dashio/ Football Hedging in stark contrast is a fools paradise, content in the early days was marketed as risk free before all hell broke loose on another forum and the legitimate claims in the marketing were challenged. What makes the content so believable is the high strike rates of methods, the downside were the bank busting losers. I know the author has in his mind has produced less riskier versions of the methods for the risk adverse customers. The successful people are outliers on the majority of results seen.

  12. re: Daisho –

    if even Mike Cruickshank of Profit Maximiser fame seems to need to get affiliate income from advertising other betting systems (thus the nature of the reviews appearing on the new Mike Cruickshank website…) – when he claims to have made £10 million from his own betting systems to date – then it would be no surprise if the person on here doing all the posts about how great Daisho is, *does* need and get money for advertising Daisho, despite his claims that he doesn’t need money like that due to ‘owning 50% of a company’.

    Again, what’s needed is proper input from users of Daisho – how it’s gone from them, and over a period of time, not just a month or 3 months (any system can work for a while, before crashing profit-wise – it’s why tipsters can create a name for themselves in the short term and then it all goes up in smoke). Daisho allegedly has a members area so there must be lots of members – you just never really hear from them.

    As we are talking about football trading and what works, it would be great if users spoke up – there’s nothing to lose after all and you don’t have to give away how the system works.

    1. Listen pal Jimmy…. one of your quotes…. “then it would be no surprise if the person on here doing all the posts about how great Daisho is, *does* need and get money for advertising Daisho, ”

      You don’t know me, you don’t have the Daisho system, I do and it works well for me, and yes I do own 50% of a company.

      You can contact Tim Lowe if you wish, I’m sure he’ll be more than happy to tell you I do NOT receive money for advertising. So before you start blowing your mouth off on here… get your facts straight ok.

      Or perhaps you would like to prove your accusations ? Thought not…..

      I purchased the system….make good money, ( WHICH I DON’T NEED ) learned how to do it over time….and reported
      what I thought about it.

      Much better than coming on here begging people to show you and making accusations eh? What’s up? is it to hard for you?

  13. @Steve and users of Daisho in general:

    GP seems to require a very high patience level – you have to learn a large group of systems (anything from say 7 to 20+) and do several bets/trades with each, per month, knowing that a lot of the bets will lose. The idea is that the odds are such that you will make a profit overall, after taking into account the wins and losses. So, the idea is that using all these different approaches, you have an ‘edge’. it is all very well giving out details of these systems on their site and advising people how to make the ‘right’ choices when they are selecting the bets for each system, but it would be useful if people who have really mastered the approach in general were to speak up and say how much they are able to make, and just confirm it works. Sorry to say, I haven’t seen a review where the reviewer actually applied their system over a period of months and was able to provide info on these lines. Reviewers simply talk of what the approach looks like and the attentive level of response from the people who run it (which is by all accounts impressive). They assume it must work, from that, but how do we know?

    As Lay Back readers are voting for GP in numbers each year, there must be a load of them reading this thread. Can any confirm the approach really works, after using it for months? Or were they voting for GP because they’ve joined the site and are ‘hoping’ the approach works, some months in, as they continue to learn how to use the systems? It takes a long time to master them all so it could well be that the votes come from new or not-so-new members, who are wowed by the info on display or have got to the point where they are able to use the portfolio of systems and have just had a lucky month or two and made a profit.

    What we need to hear from are people who make a profit consistently with their portfolio approach. Can any members respond? Hopefully the GP owner who comments on here can – with respect – keep away for a bit so as not to distract the thread and allow true response from members of the kind needed.

  14. Wow, it’s all go on here isn’t it 🙂

    Is it because the world is waking up the possibility that 99% of stuff out there is utter dross and you will need to find your own edge……

  15. Daisho and footbal have dedicated websites and facebook pages warning people of them.
    a genuinely independent review is required by a site such as this and not one where the owner is just seeking to benefit from the affiliate review revenues which accrue to them every time someone clicks through from the “review” site to the system vendor.

  16. This is about goal profits only don’t think people should give out names of other services on here without there permission or being reviewed on here first

  17. Well, my experience with GP was very poor.

    1. The people who were in the chat room every day would always change after a month or so (quite clearly people who lost a lot of money and left with their tails between their legs)

    2. I subscribed to ESTW, a separate service recommended by Steve. This lost me a LOT of money through the summer.

    3. I lost a lot of money following the systems on GP and have started winning a lot since I switched to getting my stats from FootballFormLabs (make of that what you will).

    4. I’m still a member of TYB, the sister site and lost money following the summer DBB tests, even though they were showing profit in the results, as lots of trades kept disappearing (losing ones conveniently).
    I have lost a ton of money following the so-called £30k challenge, which has made very little since January.
    DBB has made me a total of 3 points profit this season. It had a good start to the season, but has been steadily losing ever since.

    personally, I think GP is one of the weakest things you could subscribe to, unless you’re a complete novice, where you might learn to trade a little.

    IMHO

    1. Hi Rab

      If you’re the same Rab who has joined/quit a few times (we’ve only had one, so you must be) it’s great to hear that you have found something which suits your trading style. I remember helping you out over email a number of times, so time well spent it seems.

      1. The vast majority of GP members don’t use the chat room. Many are going about their lives and not wanting to sit in front of the screen for hours, others find it a distraction and wish to concentrate on their trading. New members tend to use it a lot more for live support as and when they need it, so of course there will be many different names. We have plenty of members from day one back in 2011 who are happily trading away.

      2. David does a great job with ESTW and has turned a £200 bank into £1,000 four times. Run five is currently at £692.60 so it won’t be too long before another target hit. I have no idea how you managed to lose money with such a successful system. Considering the results and the amount of work David puts in, it’s fantastic value for £10/month. In fact, on 3rd July this year you wrote to me in an email, “David’s service is great and 85 points profit in 1st 6 months of the year which is outstanding. It’s actually far too cheap really”. I agree completely!

      3. That’s great! There are infinite ways to trade and it’s important to find something which you’re comfortable with. Hopping around from system to system at GP didn’t do you any favours at all, so stick with what is working for you and don’t be tempted away – especially during tough runs.

      4. This is really frustrating… we decided to share the test algorithms with members, making it quite clear that they are TEST algorithms. We also stated that fixtures would disappear if they move out of value range – it’s on the very first page when you log in to the Members Area. When collecting data for analysis, there’s no point looking at fixtures which no longer qualify otherwise the data is inaccurate and useless.

      Kevin’s £30k Challenge… you say you’ve “lost a ton of money” but in the same sentence you acknowledge that it’s actually made a profit, so that doesn’t add up. In fact it’s a little over £650 profit in 2017 so far. DBB is running at around 15% ROI currently which we’re very happy with. It started out on fire, but 40% ROI was never sustainable and there had to be a correction. It’s right in between our target of 10% ROI and last season’s return of 20%, so doing fine.

      Once again, congrats on your success! Keep it going!

  18. There are definitely better sites out there.

    I’m currently a member of a very good Facebook football trading group. It’s no messing, fixtures & trades posted hours in advance with the owner available in chat walking through his every move.

    It coughed & spluttered a bit to start with but if you did lose it was only a point here & there. It’s now making money which is great and is really is the reason why we all do it I guess..

  19. I joined a goal profits run set and forget service one a day I think it was called but it lost money and closed I believe.I believe there r better services out there but they don’t seem to get the same publicity.

  20. How come the ‘reviews’ service at Goal Profits is something Steve has ‘zero interest’ in – the website is his and Kevin’s business.

    1. Hi James

      https://review.goalprofits.com/ is a separate site under the Goal Profits brand, managed completely by Laura.

      I used to receive emails daily asking what I thought of this or that system and I could never answer them as I don’t have any need to follow or subscribe to anything else. Since Laura started publishing her reviews, the emails have stopped coming through which is a bonus as I already receive 100+ every day!

      Of course I have an interest in Laura making fair judgements (which she absolutely does) so that the Goal Profits brand remains as trusted as it is today but, as stated above, I have ‘zero interest’ in what others are doing. I don’t have the time to run reviews anyway. I have more than enough to keep me busy supporting Goal Profits members, researching new systems, developing Team Stats, etc so that’s where my focus is.

  21. Hi all

    As a subscriber to both Goal Profits and Daisho, I feel like I should somehow get involved in this discussion, although to be fair I am relatively new at both services and due to work commitments haven’t really had the time to dig as deep into the systems as I’d want to. I do not want to enter a discussion of pro/against either of the systems, all I can say is that, yes the Daisho system appear to deliver on it’s promises, as you should be able to always at least break even on every trade. My concern is if it can be scaled enough to make a living off it as I think the profits by each trade is rather small (since it is Betfair only, you rely on liquidity on certain smaller markets), but Tony himself is certainly doing alright, so I guess it can be done. Speaking of whom, he is very helpful and committed to assist his clients in becoming serious traders, so I have no reason at all to not expect that you actually CAN make it work if you put in the time and effort. I am just not there yet.

    On to Goal Profits, which is actually what the original article is about in case anyone should’ve forgotten that… – a bit of the same story really. I have been using it for some time but again haven’t had the spare time to actually dig as deep in as I want to and GP has A LOT of info and strategies etc. I didn’t vote for GP (or any other systems/tipsters for that matter) as I honestly haven’t got the insight to tell if it actually can make you become a full time trader, if that’s want you want. But, like Daisho, as a subscriber I get the feeling that they want the best for you and there is a professionalism that makes me feel that this service will definitely be able to elevate me to another level if only I spend the time needed. Like Steve Brown have stated in this thread, GP is a number of different strategies plus some valuable statistics tools and really showing an ROI makes little sense here so the claims that the lack of this show that GP probably doesn’t work is a bit off the mark in my opinion. I believe the fact they’ve won the “Oscar” by a large margin 2 times in a row for best Football System is evidence that they are doing something right.

    1. No my friend the evidence is not that they are doing something right. The evidence is that you claim to be a member of Daisho and GP but have not stated that you are getting a return on your investment on either system. So either you are a fool being parted from his money or you are more likely a GP plant rather like the ones you see on Amazon that are in fact FAKE reviews.

      1. I can assure you that I am definitely not a “GP plant”, which then means that I am a fool, as that was the only alternative. Great… I am sure you’re a genius. From what I have done so far, both systems seem to work, but it’s based on a very low number of trades so I will not make a statement regarding ROI as it’s way to soon for that.

          1. Dude, it’s a learning process and I have done a lot of paper trading, especially for Daisho, which there is no need to rush through. All I can say is, it works at my current staking and by December I will increase the trades and stakes significantly, when I feel comfortable enough to do so. I won’t be continuing this discussion as you have clearly made your mind up and distrust anyone who are not agreeing with you.

  22. @Steve Brown
    Goal Profits used to provide profit and loss figures that always seemed to make a profit year after year. Why did these stop?

    1. Goal Profits started as a tipping service, but evolved into a football trading community. Everyone trades differently, has a different comfort level when it comes to risk, can trade at different times of the day, etc and having members lumping on the same odds became a problem. If we still had a tipping service then results would be kept, but we haven’t done so for 3-4 years now.

  23. 1. The site I previously mentioned “the stats don’t lie,” does not have any bookie sign ups. But is giving me a consistent return along with in-play man on Twitter who publishes a comprehensive stats sheet for free

    2. Goal profits used to publish the result of every stat fixture but this has been dropped.

    3. They were promoting and were affiliates for other systems long before any “Laura,” appeared.

    4. Just like Forex systems, stats change over time and what worked three years ago on “Goal profits,” is not working now so it has been dropped or adjusted..

    5. They are always banging on about their full-time traders but never state how many actually are. This is an obvious USP that for some reason they do not make any claims about.

    6. If you join these days you will be offered a very expensive extra “tipping service,” which if my memory serves me correctly is claimed to be in profit and probably is at the moment as are many Forex systems that eventually lose long term.

    7. As previously stated there are two independent reviews that do not recommend Goal profits.

    8. Goal profits website is a cross between Caan Berry/JuiceStorm/Learntotradethemarkets and a host of other imitators.

    9. Overall Goal Profits website is a very useful learning place for a newbie but for someone like me who has been betting for over 40 years the actual £37 a month is not value compared to what I can get for free for example. On the WinDrawWin site (which Goal Profits use on their spreadsheets) you can set filters to give you a very high rate of return on your bets.

    10. Although Goal Profits is described as a set of trading systems. They are apparently winning a BETTING Oscar all these years.

    11, The betting world just like life is a journey of learned experience. It can be a very expensive journey but only by subscribing to sites like Goal Profits can anyone gain the knowledge to make an informed judgement as to whether £37 a month is worth parting with. I make enough money from Betfair these days because I have the time to do so. For someone in a full time job with commuting and family etc this would be very difficult if not impossible considering the hours I need to put in so for that reason Goal Profits might be worth it to that kind of person.

    12. The only reason I have replied to this thread is to correct what I believe are inaccuracies in the Goal Profits awards

    1. Hi Steve

      A whole host of issues, most of which – of course – I do not agree with in any way, shape or form. A few of the main points:

      The site you mention does not offer what I need for my trading. For example, I can enter a list of filters and have Team Stats return a shortlist in less than a minute. It saves me a LOT of time.

      Goal Profits is not a tipping service, therefore there are no results to keep.

      Laura has always run the review site. I don’t have the time to do it and I have zero interest in what others are doing.

      Markets are constantly changing, so we evolve with them to stay ahead. That makes complete sense. We have members who have been with us since we first started in 2011.

      At one of our free events in London a couple of years ago, Kevin and I sat down with a few members to have a chat and found that three of them were trading full-time. We had no idea they were at that level – most people don’t shout about it, but quietly get on with their trading. Since then, we have heard from more who are trading at a very high level but it’s not something we keep count of – I don’t see the point.

      A very expensive extra tipping service… I have no idea what that refers to. Members receive access to everything they need on day one.

      I’ve just searched for “Goal Profits review” and found one neutral, every other was positive.

      We don’t use “Win Draw Win” but we do monitor their correct score predictions. Over the last 34,576 predictions they got 9.9% correct and 27.0% were a goal out. Team Stats predictions over 20,570 matches hit 10.8% spot on and 29.7% a goal out. We’re happy with that.

      It’s great to hear that you’re doing well, good luck!

      1. I can distinctly remember as a member of GP many years ago being offered a system based upon correct scores which if my memory serves me correctly one of you started out on. It was most definitely not offered by any “Laura,” and it was an affiliate link from your site. There was also a sister site you were promoting as well that cost an extra subscription too. More recently there is a tipping service offered to your members that I thought was expensive and that is run from the members site. I am not an idiot!!! So to deny that you have not been offering an extra tipping service from your site is a lie.
        GP has been involved in offering other services with affiliate links from its earliest days and you know it.
        The award from this site has a whiff of bullshit about it since there are so many review sites that do not promote or recommend GP i would not attach any importance to that award. And like I previously stated GP used to publish the result of every stat fixture on their systems so it became possible to see which system was performing better than others . You removed that section because GP is based upon a kind of vagary which prevents anyone from giving an objective assessment of it. You are very clever in being very economical with the actualite but not enough for me to see through your modus operandi which whatever you deny, does involve you deriving benefit from the affiliate links which you claim is run by this “Laura,” I have no doubt that there will now be a steady stream of GP members replying to this thread praising GP and I suspect that many will be those who “voted,” for this award..

        1. Hey Steve

          While contributions to the discussion are very much welcomed, I will not accept my honesty being brought into question.

          All votes were recorded independently. Goal Profits was far and away the winner with 57% of the votes, the next best system won 2 votes and nothing else received more than 1 vote. I don’t know the exact votes for previous years, but Lucy stated that Goal Profits won this award in 2016 with 3 times the votes of any other system so the numbers this time around don’t look out of place.

          It is apparent that Goal Profits has many fans and obvious that you’re not one of them. By all means state your opinion, but I do require that all comments are respectful.

          1. No one has mentioned you personally. You can only deal with the votes you receive. You have no way of knowing if those votes are genuine or if many “friends.” have got together to vote for GP. The whole substance of my points are that GP is getting these awards year on year and yet there is not a huge fan club across the internet for GP in that for example a proven profit making system such as “match betting.” is receiving.
            When a system or collection of systems such as GP becomes known as something really special, you know as well as I do that everyone wants to get on the gravy train. ‘This is not so with GP . So something is not quite right! So I am not questioning your honesty let’s get that straight but you can just as easily be fooled as anyone else , Having been a member of GP in the past and knowing someone who is a current GP member I see contradictions and variations in the claims of GP especially in reply to these posts. I hope this clarifies matters for you,

          2. I take great exception to your comment that “the award from this site has a whiff of bullshit about it”. Have they somehow ‘fooled’ Lucy year after year and now me? I would say unlikely.

            Also, you can’t compare Goal Profits (or anything!) to matched betting as they are completely and utterly different.

            Remember that I also have access to Goal Profits for review purposes and nothing in Steve’s replies on this thread contradict anything I’ve seen. I have sat in the chat room and watched what goes on, I have received member emails, tried out some of the strategies and so on. You were obviously not content with your membership and decided to leave, but your friend is happy enough to still be a member.

            I understand why a lot of review sites haven’t looked at Goal Profits. It’s a lot more work than simply logging wins and losses from a tipster and to be honest, if there wasn’t already a review here and all these Oscar wins then I wouldn’t have done one either. I was very curious to see what it was all about though as it is so very different from everything else.

            I’m not interested in going back and forth. I looked through everything and formed my opinion, you have your opinion after being a member and others have had their say through voting. The winner is the winner, we’ll go again next year.

        2. Hi Steve

          I don’t quite know what the issue is… every Goal Profits member receives everything that he or she needs on day one with no need for any extras whatsoever. Many of our members are quite happy with everything they receive for as little as £1 per day, others want to add more to their portfolio. After all, everyone is different.

          Let me address your points one by one:

          1) I started out with Assured Soccer Profits and John very kindly offered an exclusive half-price deal should any Goal Profits members/readers wish to try it out. Some did, many didn’t.

          2) Kevin and I have a second site which has been doing very well, in fact we have closed the doors now as member numbers have gone through the roof and we can only support so many. That site has more of a betting focus rather than trading, is cheaper and is nicely in profit (set-and-forget). I still don’t know what “very expensive extra tipping service” you’re referring to.

          3) As already stated, of the reviews I can find only one has come back with a ‘neutral’ rating (and that’s because he tried to review us as a tipping service, which we’re clearly not). Cashmaster said, “I reviewed this brilliant service in late January and since then it’s just gone from strength to strength. There’s so much been added and improved. It’s still evolving and getting better month by month”.

          4) Back in 2012/2013 we were more of a tipping service, but since Team Stats was developed we have moved on from that. Given that there are 16 strategies covering 65 leagues worldwide, it’s impossible to keep any sort of meaningful results. For example, if Team Stats identifies a strong first half LTD trade, we have no way of being able to record in-play prices and stats. The entry point could be 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 25 minutes or any other point of the first half based on the individual reading of the game. And after a goal, some trade out completely, some make scratch and others let it run. With straight betting it’s easy to keep results (as we do over at the other site) but with so many trading opportunities it’s just impossible.

          5) I don’t “claim” that Laura runs the review site, she DOES run it! It’s a separate website under the GP brand – I don’t have time for running reviews.

          At the end of the day, Kevin and I put in a lot of hours supporting our members and we have seen some great successes. We’re real people doing the best job we can and we get out there to meet members in person and help them along. I don’t know of anyone else doing that – certainly not for free. Our last event had 50 members attending – some flying in from Europe – and it was a great day!

          We’ll continue to do our best, good luck to you and your trading!

  24. Thanks again to everyone who voted to give Goal Profits such a comprehensive win! Fingers crossed we can win overall best product again, which would be four years in a row.

    There are a few comments on this thread which I would like to respond to:

    1. Free stats sites – Yes, there are lots of them and I used to use Soccerway. However, these sites are designed to attract traffic and earn money from those clicking through ads and bookie sign-ups. They do not have all the stats needed for me as a trader and I used to spend many hours each week updating my own spreadsheets of stats. Thanks to the Goal Profits community, I was able to design Team Stats from scratch and have been constantly improving it ever since.

    2. Cost – Team Stats saves hours of research time, we have put together a football trading course for new members, Kevin and I spend a number of hours every day supporting members, the chat room is full of supportive members, and so on. Membership works out as little as £1 per day and our members think it’s a pretty great deal (so do we!).

    3. Twitter – Quite frankly, we do not need to shout from the rooftops. We have plenty of very happy members and winning awards year after year (which are voted for, not simply handed out) helps a great deal. Sorry to those who like Twitter, but I am not a fan of it and I’m happy to let Laura use it for her reviews.

    4. Reviews – Laura runs the review site at Goal Profits and does a fantastic job (Kevin and I are not involved). I used to receive emails every single day asking me what I thought of this or that system, most of which I’d never heard of. Nowadays, I don’t get any of those emails which helps keep my inbox a little less cluttered.

    5. Profit/loss – Goal Profits is not a tipping service in any way whatsoever, Team Stats covers 65 leagues worldwide and we have 16 active trading strategies in the Goal Profits Members Area. There is no possible way that we could track any sort of meaningful profit/loss as there are different ways to trade even the same strategy on the same game. We teach members to trade for themselves in the way that they are most comfortable, rather than rely on a tips email that could stop arriving any day. That’s not any sort of a long-term plan.

    All of our free events (especially the free trading day earlier this year) have been hugely popular and we even have members flying in from Europe to meet up with everyone. When complete beginners are able to sit down and chat with members who now trade full-time, it gives them a terrific head start.

    Thanks again to everyone who voted for Goal Profits and helped us win yet another Betting Oscar. We really appreciate receiving such a big thumbs up for our work each year. Thank you!

  25. Hi Jay,

    This is what Tim said roughly, they will be closing the doors, because Tony can only handle so many to support. He’s doing all the support and emails etc himself I believe. And to be honest Jay, he is good, I had a bit of a problem and he was quick to reply. We get constant updates via the members area and emails with trades to do , he’s a really helpful guy.

    Now it was said, he wants a set number he can handle to be able to get them settled and up and running on the Football hedging I believe. When you think about all the work that has gone into this system and the excellent results, I would be very surprised if they didn’t open the doors again. They turned guys away before on the seminars for football hedging because they couldn’t handle so many. But remember this is a home study course, so I think it will be available again. As for when mate, I don’t know. You could always give waverly media a call, I’m sure they would give you an idea.

    1. Here is why I am questioning the Goal Profits award. They never give any profit or loss on their systems but are constantly tweeting on Twitter about other systems that make a profit, it is obvious that they are affiliates on these systems and I have no problem with that at all. But I have got a problem with an award winning system year after year that has no record of profit and loss of it’s own but is always promoting other systems over their own. Here is the latest one on Twitter: Goal Profits‏ @GoalProfits Nov 7
      “During our review we made £9.54 profit on average every 10-15 minutes. Like that hourly rate? We certainly did! http://bit.ly/2dqGNqA .”

      1. Hi Steve,

        Mate you are right, never give a clear figures on profits or loss. And as for these awards, well what can you say!… When affiliates are involved, makes it a bit silly really, but that’s my opinion.

        Simple question for them, do they have a trading system/method that never loses money?

        Bet you would see their profit/loss figures then eh? ….. 🙂

  26. Hi Gerry,

    Glad to hear the trading is going well for you.

    Do you know if Tony is ever going to going to start selling Daisho again?

    Cheers

    Jay

  27. Marc

    There are a few reviews on it if you google “Daisho ” obviously it’s brand new only been public since about mid summer. Where this differs mainly, is Tony has found a way to find better recovery bets without you actually losing a trade, He’s been working on this for best part of 18 months or so. Testing it live, I know he did about 600 trades showing every trade results and never lost a trade with the screenshot proofs and videos, only cutting out the actuall bets placed.

    Marc you said you cannot think or find any other ways of doing it, neither could I mate, till I found this. He’s a clever guy, quit his job and now makes hundreds of thousands of pounds. That’s what your paying for, his knowledge and brilliance at being able to find a way of trading without losing.

    All the best. ( The End ) I hope…. 🙂

  28. Hi Gerry

    It would have been great to have the opportunity to review this Daisho 🙁

    Without giving any details, would you say it is a kind of cross markets trading ?

  29. Hi Marc,

    This is totally different to football hedging, when I say it’s based on it, I mean to trade and not to lose money. Football hedging you could lose money, the new betting methods on Daisho with extensive testing over hundreds of trades shows you cannot lose now, that’s the main difference.

    I can’t obviously go into details, let me just say this. There are several methods to learn, Ive only learned two of them, and in that time I’ve doubled my betting bank in the first month. No losing trades and only a couple of break evens through learning how to place the opposing bets to do that. It is not gambling, it is trading.

    Marc a hell of a lot of work and testing has gone into this, I know guys who started before me, they too have doubled their betting banks every month. There really is nothing else to say mate….. Apart from Amy must be sick of me on here…. 🙂

  30. Hi Gerry, Hi John

    This is exactly why I say “puzzled” 😊

    It was always great to read Gerry’s posts on MMR: genius ideas and prompt to conflict with cheating vendors.

    But due to my own experience with Football hedging from the same author, I remember very well a Villareal game meeting all the criteria.

    (Without giving any details about this product)
    A quick 0-2 for the dog and I was already in the second step of the recovery
    with so many time still to play and so many outcomes to cover to be in a no lose situation.

    I was playing 100 euros stake. The recovery process (and I took the decision not to cover ALL the layouts) was needing …3000 euros top up. Just to break even.

    The good news is I was using the Practice mode of Bet angel.

    But this game made me run away.

    That’s why I believe it was not a no lose system.

    I don’t know Daisho at all.

    I don’t know if Gerry was using the previous method (the Hedging football).

    But in my opinion, both systems have the same basics : an impressive strike rate and a recovery process to activate in case the first goal goes for the “bad” team.

    Mastering the recovery process should be the main concern but I cannot see other ways to do it as topping up different markets depending on the way the game evolve.

    Still “puzzled” 🙂 😊

    Marc

  31. John,

    When I was on MMR, I use to knock the stuffing out of vendors trying to sell people garbage. I’ve been gambling for years, I don’t need the cash as I have a 50% share in a company. Having said that, I still value money and know what it means to struggle to make ends meet.

    Do you really think I would part with nearly £3,000 quid of my own cash if I thought for one second this was not a genuine product? I’ve been around the block a few times mate to get caught out like that. Yes I made mistakes when I was young and daft, not now pal, because I learned from them.

    All the best.

  32. I can tell by yuor comment,

    ” With big amounts of money going into loss recovery it’s just a matter of time before banks are wiped out. ”

    A real trader, would never do that!…..

  33. John,
    I think you are confused, this is not loss recovery in the sense you mean. Bets are placed before half timem also liquidity is no issue and getting matched is no problem. This is not the football hedging system, just a better way of trading and much improved betting methods. It has not been voted on because unless you bought it, you would know nothing about it or how it works. Let me make it clear, you can NOT lose money, at the worst you can break even or make a small profit.

    It has a 97% win rate, if you never did any recovery on the other 3% because the strike rate is so high, you would still make a profit.

    So where do you get your ” If this £3,000 system is so amazing, why did it get battered by another system which costs a fraction of the price? At best it got two votes. ” from? That is bull mate….

  34. Marc, you’re spot on with your thoughts. Everybody knows that there’s no such thing as “you can’t lose” and that loss recovery catches everyone out in the end. With big amounts of money going into loss recovery it’s just a matter of time before banks are wiped out. A quick goal will catch out those waiting to get bets matched or maybe Betfair will go down. It happens all too often. If this £3,000 system is so amazing, why did it get battered by another system which costs a fraction of the price? At best it got two votes.

  35. Hi Amey,

    Think I owe you a bit of an apology, I mentioned this football trading system and guys got interested and it got carried away a bit, so sorry for that as this page is really about Goal Profits.

    But I think if you ever happen to read about this system, think you will agree, they are not in the same league….. 🙂

    1. Hi Gerry

      Yes, this thread is really about the Best Football System but positive discussion is a good thing.

      I have read a lot about the system you’re referring to from Tim Lowe’s emails. The price is eye-watering and I think that many will be of the opinion that if something looks too good to be true, then it’s probably too good to be true. As always, I will keep an open mind until I have been able to conduct a live trial (though Tim has stated that it is closed for good).

      1. Hi Amy,

        Thanks for your imput and not telling me off to much……. 🙂

        Yes I can understand, ” if it sounds to good and all that ” Actually Amy without giving the game away it’s not magical or anything like that. Basically through the set criteria of how the games are chosen, the win rate is 97%, this has been achieved over a long period of testing, so the recovery process is not needed in those games.

        Now the other three perecent were things don’t go according to plan, you have to place certain recovery bets so you either win or break even, but never lose money. Tony actually shows proof of about six hundred trades live were he never lost a trade.

        Now this is what you are really paying the big bucks for, he has developed a way of placing bets to cover all outcomes when things go against you. This has took a hell of a lot of work and trial and error over many months. And I must admit it takes a lot of study and hard work to learn all the different recoveries.

        There are several and up to now, I’ve only learned with a reasonable ammount of confidence to do two of them. Having said that, when you have and you have managed to place them bets, you look at and say to yourself,

        ” by hell, it does work, what ever happens now, I can’t lose any money ” 🙂

        Gerry.

  36. Thanks Gerry

    I was talking about Tony’s “old” system: Football Hedging.

    I don’t know Daisho, so my comments are irrelevants.

    I will notice if the gates will open again 🙂

    All the best

    Marc

    1. Marc

      Actually this system is based on that old one but much improved. It has been streamlined, made easier to follow and recovery methods added, so you can’t lose money. Plus now this is a home study course you can learn at your own pace.

      If you said to someone, ” I can show you a way to trade on football, make thousands of pounds and never ever lose money ever again” would you believe them?

      But it’s true mate…you can’t lose….

      That’s why it costs so bloody much!……. 🙂

  37. Mark,

    I’ll just add, this trading system has a 97% win rate, the other 3% is when you will need to do some recovery work. This has been proved over hundreds of trades that Tony did and showed live screen shots and video, and never lost a trade.

    Plus for those who decided not to contine you get a stand alone betting system free with a strike rate of 93% just for watching the no obligation video so you can decide if it’s for you or not. It’s a set and forget, no trading and it works well.
    I haven’t lost a bet on that, yet!…. 🙂

  38. Hi Mark,
    It is the Japanese named system, ” Daisho ” if you follow the recovery methods exactly as Tony explains, you cannot lose money. You either win about 10% profit or more, or break even, or end up with a small profit.

    The placing the trade is the easy bit, the recovery is most important to learn, if you follow it exactly, you cannot lose money.

    The doors are closed for now as Tony must keep it to limit he can handle, then I assume it may be available in the future again.

    Gerry,

    1. Hi Gerry

      I am puzzled 🙂

      Because I know (from MMR) you are an honest person always trying to give genuine tips.

      But I also believe the system you are talking about (I guess it is not the new japanese name method from Tony) is not absolutely blowing-bank-protected. One single black swan and bye-bye the bank.

      But let’s play the game : the system (I don’t think it is) is really a no loss one.

      I am on Method 1 : I am correct if I think betting 10% of your bankroll is far too high if the game is a mess and you have to recover 2 or more steps of the recovery process ?

      Am I wrong to believe you must keep at least 50 times your bankroll to cover a deep recovery ?

      If I am right, It is simply not possible to match Tony’s results (I am not pretending he does’nt know how trading works. I also believe he is honest. But really, a 300 euros bankroll cannot produce such results in my opinion.

      P.S: my goal is not to destroy or to make any promotion because as you said, the gates are now closed forever.

      Marc

  39. And just as I finished replying, just made £125, cashed out in Bundesliga 2 Nurmberg vs Inglostadt, and with the recovery I’ve learned but didn’t need, I wouldn’t have lost any cash no matter what happened. Don’t get better than that eh?…..:-)

  40. Hi Ben,
    Was I really that hard on the vendors…..:-) yep guilty as charged. Though you do know you could be talking to a computer robot created by a Chinese guy, or, a Walter Mitty who ever only flew a computer flight simulator.
    The things those trolls came up with, spoiled MMR and I quit. Not long after that MMR quit, makes you think!

    As you may remember I’m a bit addicted to gambling, keep trying to convince myself it’s only a hobby. Now for this
    trading system/method. Been checking it out for some time, and to give credit where it’s do, this is one hell of a good
    trading system Tony has created. I don’t need the cash, but it’s great to try something that you know you can’t lose money.

    And as for Tim paying……:-) you make me smile. I do have something on him though, he never paid for the chocolates
    he pinched on one flight, I once reminded him of that. Let me put it this way no bull, if anyone can afford this and I do realise it’s a lot of money. Be prepared to learn the methods, have discipline, patience, practice, practice, you’ve got
    a trading product that could change your life. It already is to some of them I know.

    All the best.

  41. If you are the same Gerry from MMR who used to give vendors such a hard time then this really is high praise. If you are the guy who used to fly round the world then Tim and Tony should be paying you money for them comments!

  42. Just to add, it is actually a home study course, so no need to attend a seminar, and you can learn it at your own pace.
    I prefer that, plus Tony is always available if you get stuck on anything.

  43. Hi Gerry, completely agree about GP, could never make it work for me.

    Have you sold your soul to the devil and are using a Tony Langley product by any chance 🙂

    All the best

    1. Hi Jay,
      it’s a lot easier now the newer version, more streamlined and buy hell mate, it does work. Got to hand it to him, love him or hate him, a hell of a lot of work gone into this mate. Never had a losing trade yet, broke even a couple of times, I’m happy with that. The thing with this, it’s a system/merthod that will never stop working unlike others over time.
      Not cheap I know, but it will pay for itself in a couple of months, then you have something for life to use.
      Even send you a nice folder by post with everything in it to refer back to, also had a couple of questions, Tony replied within the hour.

      good luck Jay.

  44. I don’t buy this with Goal Profits, one review site said it failed miserably, and it did on their test period, another said it would place it in the neutral category. I think it gets voted because there isn’t many good football trading methods about.

    Except one, not going to say who or what, in fact they’ve closed the doors to new members.

    This is one football trading system I have and it would blow them away, why?, I hear you ask…. 🙂

    Because it never loses, yep, that’s right it never loses money, you either win or breake even or end up with a small
    profit.

    You won’t get it for £37 a month either, minimum cost nearly 3 grand, I suppose you get what you pay for!….

    1. This post and the others below by “Gerry”, are nothing more than an attempt to hijack a thread to promote this £3000 magical system for reasons best known to himself.

      1. Ted,

        ” magical system ” listen my friend, I was simply telling people about a product, that if you are prepared to learn a trading method by way of placing certain recovery bets, you will NOT lose money, unlike goal profits. It’s called being helpful towards one another, perhaps you might like to try it sometime eh?

        Instead of posting something that does not contribute to this site what’s so ever!….. apart from showing your narrow little mind!….

        1. It’s not correct to say you can’t lose money with the Football Hedging system. If you pick a game and are unlucky enough to see goals start flying in there is just no way to cover all the possible scores, as some odds will be in double figures but others can be close to evens or odds on. You’ll never be able to balance your profit/exposure across the remaining possible scores.

  45. I lost money with Goal Profits. I was selecting their top picks but couldn’t make it work and eventually left. However most people do seem to make money so I guess my talents lie in picking the wrong selections – need to find a way to utilise that 🙂

  46. Very well deserved. I have tried everything under the sun and Goal Profits is the only place I have ever managed to make a consistent return. Kevin and Steve should be charging a lot more for their services.

    1. I repeat there are enough free stats across the net without paying £37 for vagary. I too make a consistent return but I use thestatsdontlie.com where all the information anyone needs is available for free. When Kevin and Steve can produce profitable selections that show a year on year profit the the award is justified and again I repeat if goal profits is worth £37 a month why are Kevin and Steve not shouting it out across the net instead of trialling other peoples systems.

  47. Would be interested to know how many of those voting for Goal Profits, make profit each month from using their approaches, and how many points profit also (which will vary from individual to individual but be interesting to know). It is easy to be impressed by all the write-ups on their site, the sound of the methods, database etc but it can also look complicated to use and, it looks like it would take a lot of learning. News from people who aren’t just voting because they are ‘impressed’, or ‘hoping’ to make money through GP, would be good as it would be news from people who have come out the other side of all the learning and application their methods seem to need.

    1. I tried goal profits for one month but £37 a month? Not when there are now countless free statistics on the net. Another thing i noticed on their Twitter account they are always tweeting about systems they are trialling just like Amy’s site but you will see very little if anything about profits being made.

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